The Fear Remains the Same

interview with Ellen Datlow

Ellen Datlow is one of the most respected and awarded editors in the genre today. She has been the editor of three groundbreaking webzines and has edited 19 volumes of the Year's Best Fantasy and Horror (compiling and editing the Horror half). She will be a guest at Conflux in June. Ellen agreed to be interviewed by Russell B. Farr for this issue. Thanks also to Deb Biancotti for her input.

Like everyone but the accountants at Scifi.com, I was saddened to hear about the demise of SCIFICTION. Without dwelling too much on the negative, what do you think you achieved with this webzine?

I think the three webzines I worked on: OMNI Online, Event Horizon, and SCIFICTION paved the way to an acceptance of original sf/f/h fiction online.

SCIFICTION, simply by surviving six years and publishing consistently readable fiction, put the lie to the assertion that there wasn't any good fiction on the web. I published some great writers and a lot of interesting, thought-provoking original sf/f/h stories.

Also, with the classic series we were able to bring back into the field's consciousness a few of the great stories from its past.

Do you feel that there is a perception that webzines are the poor cousins of paper-based publications? What do you feel that webzines offer that paper-based 'zines can't?

I think that's less so now that there are so many respected webzines (genre and not, fiction and not). The one major advantage of webzines over paper-based is that there's no constraint on word length. For the first time ever I was able to publish novellas as a regular part of the mix. Initially, people said you can't publish long stories on the web, you should only publish very short fiction. I never believed that to be so — once you engage the reader, the length is irrelevant.

There are some fun things that can be done on the web more successfully than in print: round-robins — i.e. an ongoing series with multiple authors. The stories themselves weren't usually particularly good but the process was fun for the writers (and I hope) for the readers. Using pop-up "notes" such as in some stories/novellas by Kim Newman and Howard Waldrop — the whole Michael Swanwick's "Periodic Table of Science Fiction" was done as a pop-up. Each week a new element's story would pop-up into a separate window.

Where do you see the future for webzines?

I'm still hoping that a business model will be created that can sustain a well-paying webzine. There are professional pay rate webzines popping up (the Baen and the Orson Scott Card webzines) and I hope they're successful. I think new webzines will continue to sprout (much like the small press sf/f market is doing).

Any thought as to what that business model would look like? Is the source of funds from subscriptions, advertising, being attached to another operation, a mix of these three or something else entirely?

So far, what seems to work is a mix of all three of the above. If there's another model, no one has come up with it yet.

What is it that excites you about editing, or is it just a day job?

I love working with writers and I love discovering wonderful new stories. It's great fun, most of the time. I'm doing exactly what I love doing so it's the best day job I could ever have.

What do you like in a writer, in a personal sense? What makes for a good writer/editor relationship, and as a non-writing editor, what do you get out of the deal?

I enjoy working with writers who can "listen" — those with whom I'm on the same wavelength — although this might only become apparent after working with them a few times. When an editor and writer want the same thing out of a story and the editor can help the writer "see" how to make her story the best it can be, that's very satisfying for me as an editor (and I hope, for the writer as well).

It's difficult to work with a writer who sees the editor in an adversarial position. Luckily, I don't work with many writers like that.

Who do you consider to be the newer crop of writers to watch out for, and do you think that they bring with them something that writers of the 70 and 80s didn't?

I'll mention a few short story writers as short stories are mostly what I read:
Elizabeth Bear wrote some terrific horror stories for me at SCIFICTION;
Laird Barron is writing excellent horror and dark fantasy;
Joe Hill is an excellent new horror story writer who recently had his first collection published (and won the William Crawford Award for fantasy — first time a collection ever won);
Rjurik Davidson, who I taught at ClarionSouth has published some excellent short fiction;
Ellen Klages who was already writing and getting attention and was also my student at ClarionSouth — since attending Clarion, I think her fiction has made dramatic leap forward in craft;
Jason Stoddard has written two excellent stories for me and has been selling his fiction to Interzone as well;
Jedediah Berry has sold me and Terri Windling two good fantasies for anthologies;
Christopher Barzak is writing some wonderful stories;
Christopher Rowe's amazing "The Voluntary State" was a big step forward from his earlier work;
Kelly Link continues to astound me by her skill with structure — she always seems totally in control;
Margo Lanagan continues to write wonderful short fiction, I've just bought a very dark fantasy from her for an anthology;
Lavie Tidhar is an Israeli writer whose work I've been buying;
Glen Hirshberg continues to write fine horror and ghost stories...

I could name a dozen more but who has space? (or time?)

My only complaint is that not enough of these excellent writers are writing science fiction. The boundaries have blurred more and I guess I have to take some responsibility for that in both publishing boundary-stretching fiction over the years and encouraging it. But I would like to see more science fiction.

You read as widely as anyone in the genre, and probably know as much about what is coming out of Australia as anyone. How do you see things progressing down under, are Australian writers better than they were 10 years ago?

"Better"? I can't say. I do think there are more Australian writers publishing in the US and that brings them more visibility. And because I do read widely, I often become aware of Australian (and British) writers before a lot of Americans do. I've been publishing Terry Dowling's (mostly) horror stories for awhile now although I also published an sf story by him in SCIFICTION. I've recently started buying stories from Lucy Sussex and have bought stories by Bill Congreve, Rjurik Davidson, (the late Cherry Wilder) Stephen Dedman, Simon Brown (either originals or reprints), Chris Lawson, and have had stories by other Australians on my Year's best short lists (the list no one sees that are the "almost chosen stories") in the past couple of years.

I'm not at all knowledgeable about novels coming out of Australia. Bill Congreve often writes me to alert me to the Australian horror and dark fantasy novels he thinks I should be aware of.

How do you see Australian writers stacking up in world terms?

I think this question is terribly unfair to Australian writers. They don't have to compete with writers from other nations or continents as Australian writers — only as writers. All they have to do is get their work out there in the broad sf/f/h public eye and that means crossing continental borders, which is much easier with the advent of email and the internet.

You made your second visit down under to be a tutor at ClarionSouth last year. What did you think of the workshop and the writers in attendance? Do they party on the east coast as well as they party in the west?

I enjoy tutoring at Clarion although it's hard work. The students overall seemed more experienced and professional than those I've taught in the US — most of my ClarionSouth students had already been published in semi-pro or pro magazines or anthologies(in and outside of Australia). It's rare for Clarion East and Clarion West students to have published before attending the US workshops.

Well, partying with Clarion students while they're still in the midst of the workshop is completely different from partying with people attending a convention in Perth. It's not a comparison I can make until Conflux. The Aurealis party was wonderful but that's an award party, which is different from simply partying.

Do the same things make a good horror story now as they did 20 years ago? Do people scare differently post September 11?

To the first part, yes, I think so. Fear is a constant — it may manifest in different ways, but people will always be afraid of the dark, of the loss of bodily integrity (e.g. mutilation), loss of control, of the unknown, of the loss of a child or other loved one. Of death. Fashions in horror change but the archetypal scary things will still frighten when written well. There will always be another great vampire story, a great ghost story, a great zombie story (although frankly, I think interesting, original, scary rather than disgusting zombies are a tough one), a great monster story, a great psychological horror story. If the writer is good enough she can convince. It's as simple as that (of course, that's easy for me to say — not being a writer ;-) )

Do you see any signs of a "new horror" post September 11? Is horror still as popular as it was before that day?

I think initially, a few writers were having crises about writing fiction — the "how can I write fiction when this horror is going on in the world?" This was especially acute for horror writers. But I haven't seen any difference in the horror fiction I read.

However, there have been a few excellent pieces of sf/f that have been written about the attacks (or around them) such as Lucius Shepard's "Only Partly Here" and Richard Bowes' "There's a Hole in the City." I was receiving a lot of submissions about death and dying — but I believe that was already happening pre- 9/11. The aftermath of the attacks has been far more influential as far as I can tell. While at SCIFICTION I was getting a lot more political sf and fantasy for examples stories and novellas by John Grant, Daniel Abraham, Lucius Shepard, M. Rickert, Gavin J. Grant, Susan Palwick, and others. Were these influenced by the political fallout from 9/11? I think so.

You're coming back to Australia in June to be a guest at Conflux. What do you aim to achieve on this trip, and what are you looking forward to?

I'm excited to touch base with the writers I've already met and to meet other writers. I'd like to keep encouraging them to submit their fiction to me (for various things I edit) and continue submitting not only to Australian markets but to those outside of Australia as well. I also hope to publicise my books (and sell a bunch). I enjoy conventions — here you've got a bunch of people who (hopefully) are pleased to see me — hey, I can blather on forever if you get me going.

I'm also very much looking forward to exploring more of Australia. This will be my third trip and I'm going to the interior for the first time — Alice Springs, Uluru, Coober Pedy, etc.

You have an extensive online presence, being active on several bulletin boards and an Amazon "plog". What exactly is the plog all about?

A "plog" (frankly I haven't bothered to look up how amazon defines it) is kind of a blog that is on each individual amazon page selling the author's books. I can plug events that I'm attending or when a new book is coming out. It's really just repeating a lot of stuff I post on the HWA BB, the Nightshade BB, and the TTA BB. It seems like a great way for an author to build a relationship with his readers.

There'll be a new Year's Best Fantasy and Horror in August, I believe. What else can we expect to see from you in the near future?

By the way, The Year's Best will now be called The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror 2006: Nineteenth Annual Collection and has a completely different look and design by Tom Canty.

Terri Windling and I have handed in our third young adult crossover to adult anthology called The Coyote Road: Trickster Tales, and it should be out from Viking in the summer of 2007.

Also, we're about to hand in a non-theme adult fantasy anthology called Salon Fantastique to Thunder's Mouth. We think that will be out in 2007 as well.

I may be guest editing a magazine this fall for 07 publication but that's not definite. Unfortunately, I only have one thing coming out in 06 so there goes any hope of making the Hugo ballot in 06 :-) I should have at least three anthologies and possibly one issue of a magazine coming out in 2007.

Thank you for your time.

My pleasure.

As fiction editor of OMNI magazine and OMNI Online from 1981 through 1998, Ellen Datlow encouraged and helped develop an entire generation of fiction writers, and has published some of today's biggest names in the SF, fantasy and horror genres. The stunning assortment of writers Datlow brought to the pages of OMNI includes such talents as William Gibson, Pat Cadigan, Dan Simmons, K.W. Jeter, Clive Barker, Stephen King, William Burroughs, Ursula K. Le Guin, Jonathan Carroll, Joyce Carol Oates, Peter Straub and Jack Cady, among many others.

She was then the editor of Event Horizon: Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror, a Webzine founded in September 1998 that remained active until December 1999. During that period, Event Horizon published "The Specialist's Hat" by Kelly Link, winner of the 1999 World Fantasy Award for Best Short Story — only the second story published on the Internet to win the World Fantasy Award. (The first, "Radio Waves" by Michael Swanwick, was published by Datlow in OMNI Online).

Ellen Datlow is currently tied for winning the most World Fantasy Awards in the organisation's history (seven); has won, with co-editor Terri Windling, a Bram Stoker Award for The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror #13, with co-editors Kelly Link and Gavin J. Grant, a Bram Stoker Award for The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror #17, The International Horror Guild Award for her ghost story anthology, The Dark, the Locus Award for Best Editor in 2005 and the Hugo Award for Best Editor in 2002 and 2005. In addition, SCIFICTION won the Hugo Award for best Web site in 2005 as well as the Wooden Rocket award as best online magazine for 2005. She can be found online at www.datlow.com.